Messages in Advanced-Passenger-Train group. Page 32 of 68.

Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1599 From: Rob Latham Date: 06/02/2005
Subject: APT Photo's
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1600 From: Paul Leadley Date: 08/02/2005
Subject: New POP Train
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1601 From: Kit Spackman Date: 09/02/2005
Subject: POP Mk 2 ?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1602 From: Paul Leadley Date: 09/02/2005
Subject: Re: POP Mk 2 ?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1603 From: Brian Date: 10/02/2005
Subject: APT-P on ECML
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1604 From: Pape Timothy Date: 10/02/2005
Subject: Re: APT-P on ECML
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1605 From: Brian Date: 10/02/2005
Subject: Re: APT-P on ECML
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1606 From: Phill Spowart Date: 10/02/2005
Subject: Could the APT-P run again?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1608 From: Andy Appleton Date: 10/02/2005
Subject: Re: APT-P on ECML
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1609 From: aarontaffera Date: 11/02/2005
Subject: Hornby APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1610 From: Kit Spackman Date: 11/02/2005
Subject: Running APT again.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1611 From: Rob Latham Date: 11/02/2005
Subject: Re: APT-P on ECML
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1613 From: Alan Date: 11/02/2005
Subject: Re: Hornby APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1614 From: Kit Spackman Date: 12/02/2005
Subject: Re: APT-P on ECML
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1615 From: jengimac Date: 16/02/2005
Subject: Re: APT-P on ECML
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1616 From: jengimac Date: 16/02/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 692
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1617 From: jengimac Date: 16/02/2005
Subject: Re: Running APT again.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1618 From: Brian Johnson Pianos Date: 17/02/2005
Subject: Re: Re: Running APT again.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1619 From: Kit Spackman Date: 18/02/2005
Subject: A book?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1620 From: Rich Payne Date: 18/02/2005
Subject: Re: A book?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1621 From: Kit Spackman Date: 19/02/2005
Subject: APT Powerpoint
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1622 From: Rob Latham Date: 20/02/2005
Subject: Kit - Wired for sound ?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1623 From: Mark Drury Date: 21/02/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 692
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1624 From: Kit Spackman Date: 21/02/2005
Subject: Recording slide show
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1625 From: Alan Date: 23/02/2005
Subject: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1626 From: Robert M. Ellsworth Date: 23/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1627 From: Kit Spackman Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1628 From: Alan Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1629 From: Rob Latham Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Crewe open day
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1631 From: Alan Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1632 From: Brian Torrens Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Re: Crewe open day
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1633 From: Brian Torrens Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1634 From: Andy Appleton Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1635 From: Alan Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1636 From: aarontaffera Date: 25/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1637 From: Rob Latham Date: 25/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1638 From: bathmatus Date: 25/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1639 From: Alan Date: 25/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1640 From: Alan Date: 25/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1641 From: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com Date: 02/03/2005
Subject: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1642 From: Alan Date: 03/03/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1643 From: Mark Drury Date: 03/03/2005
Subject: Re: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1644 From: bathmatus Date: 07/03/2005
Subject: APT BIBLE
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1645 From: Andy Appleton Date: 13/03/2005
Subject: Re: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1646 From: Ian Ellis Date: 13/03/2005
Subject: Re: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train / APT-E nickname?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1648 From: Alan Date: 13/03/2005
Subject: Re: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train / APT-E nickname?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1649 From: James R Moody Date: 13/03/2005
Subject: Re: Re: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train / APT-E n
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1650 From: Alan Date: 14/03/2005
Subject: Re: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train / APT-E nickn
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1651 From: Kit Spackman Date: 14/03/2005
Subject: E-Train name
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1652 From: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com Date: 14/03/2005
Subject: Poll results for Advanced-Passenger-Train



Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1599 From: Rob Latham Date: 06/02/2005
Subject: APT Photo's
Hi all

just a note to let everyone know that Paul Colbeck has made his
photo's available for sale through PhotoBox

See

http://www.apt-p.com/APTGalleryColourPC.htm

For thumbnails of them


Rob
www.apt-p.com
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1600 From: Paul Leadley Date: 08/02/2005
Subject: New POP Train
Hi all,
Kit, a new pop train, what if.....................

We could use the free end e1t and SA bogie and then pre-fab a new
POP coach, mount it for display on the fore said bogies, and there
you have it, PC5.

Maybe we should mention this to Anthony, I bet he would be up for
it. A rebuild of the TC2 display tilt pack and other bits donated
by say.......MTS, and the jobs a good en.

Must get the last pictures of the E train posted, sorry for the
delay.

Oh, yes, Kit, Tim sent me some good video of us leaving the NRM and
heading down towards Thrall on video, must get that sorted too,
sorry Tim also for not getting the uncut version to you.

I will, I prmoise

Regards

Paul
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1601 From: Kit Spackman Date: 09/02/2005
Subject: POP Mk 2 ?
Paul.

>We could use the free end e1t and SA bogie and then pre-fab a new
>POP coach, mount it for display on the fore said bogies, and there
>you have it, PC5.<

But what do we hold up the inner ends of the E-Train trailer cars with?

>Maybe we should mention this to Anthony, I bet he would be up for
>it. A rebuild of the TC2 display tilt pack and other bits donated
>by say.......MTS, and the jobs a good en.<

The display pack looks NOTHING like the Mk 2s on E-Train unfortunately.
Actually any old hydraulic power supply would do the job if we want it to
really tilt, but if it needs to LOOK like a Mk 2 we'll have to make a
fibreglass mockup! <g>

Maybe we could take one of the E-Train Power Car packs out though? PC2
would be a prime candidate, it needs a thorough re-build anyway.

Seriously we ought to mention such things to Anthony when we see him next,
it will give him ideas about how we are thinking.

BTW is HSV1 going to Shildon too?

Regards
Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1602 From: Paul Leadley Date: 09/02/2005
Subject: Re: POP Mk 2 ?
Hi Kit,
I mentioned about the display tilt pack, as we have that and it
wouldnt take that much to to get it working, well, with Mr Tilt on
the case. Its a cheap way of getting PC5 tilting. A mock-up of a
tilt pack would look just as good, with the display pack hidden
inside.

The outer ends of E train, well the bollies I suppose.

There was talk that HSV1 should go to Shildon, I will contact Anthony
to see if anthing has been done about that, it really should be there.

Id love to have a go at POP 2, maybe if I, someone nice wins the
Lottery and gives us a heap of cash.

As a sideline Kit, have you got a Flightsim model of TSR2!!!

Hows the mega download done.

Regards

Paul

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, Kit Spackman
<101453.3657@c...> wrote:
> Paul.
>
> >We could use the free end e1t and SA bogie and then pre-fab a new
> >POP coach, mount it for display on the fore said bogies, and there
> >you have it, PC5.<
>
> But what do we hold up the inner ends of the E-Train trailer cars
with?
>
> >Maybe we should mention this to Anthony, I bet he would be up for
> >it. A rebuild of the TC2 display tilt pack and other bits donated
> >by say.......MTS, and the jobs a good en.<
>
> The display pack looks NOTHING like the Mk 2s on E-Train
unfortunately.
> Actually any old hydraulic power supply would do the job if we want
it to
> really tilt, but if it needs to LOOK like a Mk 2 we'll have to make
a
> fibreglass mockup! <g>
>
> Maybe we could take one of the E-Train Power Car packs out though?
PC2
> would be a prime candidate, it needs a thorough re-build anyway.
>
> Seriously we ought to mention such things to Anthony when we see
him next,
> it will give him ideas about how we are thinking.
>
> BTW is HSV1 going to Shildon too?
>
> Regards
> Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1603 From: Brian Date: 10/02/2005
Subject: APT-P on ECML
I was told yesterday that in the early 80's an APT-P was propelled on
the ECML for tests of one sort or another. It invoved 2 loco's & was
propelled to 100 MPH and released. Does anybody have more details?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1604 From: Pape Timothy Date: 10/02/2005
Subject: Re: APT-P on ECML
Hi,

This was for coasting trials, a pair of 37s were used to propel up to the
ton, and then they released the APT, and slammed on the brakes, praying that
the APT didn't hit the brakes too.

A report on this was published in an early edition of Traction magazine.

Cheers,

Tim.

http://tims-pics.fotopic.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian [mailto:napierdeltic1977@...]
Sent: 10 February 2005 09:31
To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
Subject: <APT Group> APT-P on ECML



I was told yesterday that in the early 80's an APT-P was propelled on
the ECML for tests of one sort or another. It invoved 2 loco's & was
propelled to 100 MPH and released. Does anybody have more details?







Yahoo! Groups Links







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For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution,
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Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1605 From: Brian Date: 10/02/2005
Subject: Re: APT-P on ECML
I have been looking for a suitable excuse to run an APT-P on my model
railway based in N. Yorkshire in the early 80's. OK it is being
propelled, but I can now justify it. Need to buy a 2nd hand Hornby
one now !

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, Pape Timothy
<tjpape@Q...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This was for coasting trials, a pair of 37s were used to propel up
to the
> ton, and then they released the APT, and slammed on the brakes,
praying that
> the APT didn't hit the brakes too.
>
> A report on this was published in an early edition of Traction
magazine.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim.
>
> http://tims-pics.fotopic.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian [mailto:napierdeltic1977@y...]
> Sent: 10 February 2005 09:31
> To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: <APT Group> APT-P on ECML
>
>
>
> I was told yesterday that in the early 80's an APT-P was propelled
on
> the ECML for tests of one sort or another. It invoved 2 loco's &
was
> propelled to 100 MPH and released. Does anybody have more details?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent
correspondence
> is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s).
> For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying,
distribution,
> or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such
information
> is prohibited and may be unlawful.
>
> Emails and other electronic communication with QinetiQ may be
monitored.
> Calls to QinetiQ may be recorded for quality control,
> regulatory and monitoring purposes.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1606 From: Phill Spowart Date: 10/02/2005
Subject: Could the APT-P run again?
Hello there,
I have recently joined your newsgroup, and have been reading the emails. As
I do this, I started thinking could the APT-p (or even E) ever run again? Is
there a plan for this in the future, or would it just be too expensive?
Thankyou and good luck,
Phill
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1608 From: Andy Appleton Date: 10/02/2005
Subject: Re: APT-P on ECML
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1609 From: aarontaffera Date: 11/02/2005
Subject: Hornby APT-P
I have a Hornby APT without a pantograph. I've seen the individual
pantograph on Ebay go for near £50. This would be the Faively
pantograph. Hurst models used to have a Faively but I believe they
are re-tooling it and it is not presently available.

Seeing as it was replaced in real life by the Brecknell
Willis model which is on the APT at Crewe I thought of getting one
for my Hornby. It is spare X8013 I believe. Anybody have any ideas on
how to connect it to the rod that comes through the powercar body
(attached to the bogie) so it won't tilt.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1610 From: Kit Spackman Date: 11/02/2005
Subject: Running APT again.
Phill,

>I have recently joined your newsgroup, and have been reading the emails.
As I do this, I started thinking could the APT-p (or even E) ever run
again? Is there a plan for this in the future, or would it just be too
expensive?<

There currently isn't a plan, and it depends what your budget is to
determine if it's 'too expensive'. <g>

I suppose given an unlimited amount of cash we could have both of them
running again, but there's a time limit involved. The limit is how long
people like me, who were orginally working on them, stay alive!

As the various organisations who have owned them in the past have been
woefully defficiant in keeping good records the paperwork you'd need to do
such a mammoth task possibly doesn't exist any more.

Rob will no doubt answer more fully for P-Train's prospects, but there
really is very little chance of E-Train running again. Now that it's at
Shildon it may never even turn a wheel again either, except for small
shunting movements, and even they are unlikely. Even if we managed to
overcome the money and lost expertise problems there is the final issue of
where would we run it? Network Rail surely wouldn't even think deeply about
it, we'd get a big 'No', and that would be that.

Sad, but true I'm afraid.

Regards
Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1611 From: Rob Latham Date: 11/02/2005
Subject: Re: APT-P on ECML
The following was OCRed (and not fully checked for recognition
errors!) from TRACTION February 1995 (article by Harry Friend) -


WHO SAID "I remember as if it were yesterday"? Oh yes, Stevenson
(Robert Louis, not the railway one) in the opening words of Treasure
Island. It may be ten years ago now, but I'm hardly likely to forget
the present we received from the Derby Technical Centre on,
appropriately enough, a Friday the thirteenth.

My old boss, Reg Charlton, was partly to blame, for getting me the
job of Traction Inspector back in 1978. He was quite a thorn in the
side of management and was eventually 'kicked upstairs' to York
Headquarters as the Chief Traincrew Officer of the Eastern Region.
I'd risen to Chief by that time and, with Reg's departure, now worked
for the Newcastle Traincrew Officer, Alan Hunn. There were two other
Traction Inspectors and the four of us worked out of tiny offices at
Newcastle Central station.

We were responsible for nine depots - Gateshead, Thornaby, Tyne Yard,
Hartlepool, Darlington, Blyth, South Dock, Consett and Berwick. We
travelled all the Eastern Region roads, from Edinburgh to Kings
Cross, and to Carlisle, Middlesbrough, Whitby, and so on. If I tell
you there used to be five Traction Inspectors at Newcastle, you'll
gather that there was far too much work for us to cope with in 1984.
We were supposed to ride with every driver from all nine depots at
least once a year. This was impossible, and management knew it,
because we also had to pass out drivers on all kinds of traction,
teach them the rules and regulations, and instruct every MP12 trainee
on Class 47s for two days! We never stopped, but all three of us
tried to be as through as possible because, if you aren't, standards
invariably suffer. Matters came to a head on Friday the thirteenth of
July when one of my inspectors, Bob Blackburn, announced that he was
off on a fort- night's holiday. That only left me and my junior,
Colin Johnson. I'd been down to Thornaby that day, passing out three
drivers on the Class 56. As the last of our normal working week,
Friday should have been Poets Day and, by 4.30, I'd finished my
reports on the three drivers and was about to push off for the
weekend when Alan Hunn strode into my office, smiling broadly. "I've
just come back from a meeting and found these on my desk, Harry." He
brandished a set of
papers. "Look them over, will you? We should be able to manage with
just one inspector... you." Then he looked apologetic. "Oh, by the
way, its 12 days' night shift starting on Sunday." "Oh aye?" I said
warily, as all thought of a relaxing weekend with my wife evaporated.
After studying the papers more closely, Alan realised we'd actually
need two inspectors, which was lucky because there were only the two
of us left! It also became clear that the shifts would last for ten
hours.

The report from Derby was very detailed - two Class 37s working in
multiple would, with special dispensation from the Maintenance
Engineer, run up to 100 mph slip-coupled to an 8-coach APT set. The
APT would, of course, be unpowered, as we didn't have the overhead
juice at that time (why us, then, you may ask?!) The APT had already
run trials on the West Coast between Euston and Glasgow, with the
vehicles canting at speeds up to 140 mph. To get power to the brakes
and air-conditioning for our trials, a small diesel engine would be
installed behind the driver in the APT's cab. A research team from
Derby, led by a man called Clive Turner, would camp out in a hotel
near Heaton carriage sidings for two weeks, along with four Polmadie
drivers with APT traction knowledge who would work three days each.
As for the Class 37s, a Gateshead spare link driver, with a
secondman, would take charge of the multiple locos with a Newcastle
guard. Furthermore, the Polmadie men would only be at the APT
controls between Darlington and York but, even so, a Darlington
driver would be needed to conduct them! (Are you still with me?) My
position would be with the Gateshead driver in the Class 37 cab, the
other inspector in the leading APT cab with the driver and conductor.
Enter Colin Johnson, who had already gone home and knew nothing about
any of this. I rang him that night and delivered the bad news. He was
a good bloke and immediately said he would cancel his plans and go
straight to Heaton by car on the Sunday night. Alan Hunn had already
agreed to cover both our normal jobs for the fortnight!

We used seven Class 37s in all, but the 'pairs' were mixed up each
night. Some were good, some moderate and one pair really bad! Their
working diagram was as follows:

Arrive Depart
Gateshead depot 00.30
Heaton C.S. 00.45 01.00 (haul)
Darlington 01.40 02.15 (propel)
York 04.00 (slip) 04.15
Northallerton 05.30 (slip) 05.45 (haul)
York 06.15 06.30 (slip)
Northallerton 07.30 (slip) 07.35 (propel)
Eaglescliffe 08.15 08.30 (haul)
Newcastle 09.30 09.35
Heaton C.S. 09.45 stable APT

At the points marked, having run up to 100 mph propelling the APT
set, the slip coupling would be released, the locos would be braked,
sending the APT off on its own unpowered, rather like shooting it out
of a cannon! As the Gateshead driver would be their spare link, I
expected a different man every night and I was almost right. I got
the same two working two nights each but, in all, I had to explain to
ten different drivers what was involved in the tests. None of these
spare link drivers were mugs and the same question emerged every time
they read the working instructions. In the following locos, we would
inevitably have to pass the next red light the APT in front would
have activated, That was bad enough but, if the APT encountered a red
light, its air brakes would stop it much quicker than we could
manage. The drivers' verdict was unanimous: "No way, Harry, we'll get
flattened!" They were right; the 37s would have no chance, even if we
spotted the stationary APT ahead through the darkness. To set their
minds at rest, I promised to take up the matter with Clive Turner
before the runs began.

On the Sunday night I arrived at a silent Gateshead depot and found
that Jamey was on duty in the Foreman's Office. He seemed surprised
to see me. "What's up?" I said, "haven't you got the special papers?"
He went pale. Right in front of him on the desk was the unopened
envelope containing the engine diagrams. He read them at once and
reacted very swiftly indeed! His board showed him he had six Class
37s on the depot, but four were down for fitter attention during that
night. The two available were at opposite ends of the yard, buried
amongst other dead diesels. Jamey sprang to his feet, rounded up the
two shed enginemen and, between the four of us, we moved more than a
dozen locos before we eventually got the two 37s together, One of the
second men, whose job it was to multiple the locos, wasn't bothered
at all. "Not my job, mate. You'll need the shunter from Central
station." I looked him straight in the eye. "Couple them up or leave
the premises now... and I *!@*"I-well mean it!" He did, and like
lightning. By the time I'd checked the locos for power, braking, fuel
and coolant it was getting on for midnight and we were due off at
00.30. I sprinted back to the lobby and found driver Jack Cowan
carefully reading his instructions. He was an excellent driver, but
he was also a keen figure in the ASLEF movement. "Are you sure about
this bumph, Harry?" he said, waving the papers at me. "Don't worry,"
I said hastily, "Clive will sort it out." We left on time, light
engine to Heaton. Both locos were fine. When Jack opened the
throttle, I opened the cab window to check that the second engine had
also revved up. Champion! At Heaton, the shed master conducted us in
and announced "You've got ten on." "Ten? My God, I thought eight was
the maximum. I can't see two 37s getting up to a 100 pushing ten
between Darlington and York." Then we saw the APT, with Clive Turner,
Colin, my inspector, and one of the Polmadie drivers standing by the
cab. I took Clive to one side, with Jack Cowan, and explained my
predicament. He straightaway revealed that he was a technical bod,
not a locoman, and then explained the APT to us. As well as the extra
diesel engine, it was fitted with a low protection unit. If the
diesel stopped, air pressure would be lost and the brakes would come
on in the emergency position. Worse still, all the disc brakes were
working on all ten coaches! Jack asked the burning question about
signals suddenly turning from green to red.
Clive said the solution was to isolate the AWS and the "deadman" and
for my inspector, who would ride in the APT cab, to keep a constant
eye on the air pressure gauge to ensure there was no drop from 100
psi. If the driver met a red signal he would make a full brake
application manually and leave it at that.

When we were hauling the APT, the standard coupling and both air
pipes would be connected, so Jack Cowan could control the train as
well as the locos, When we ran round at Darlington, though, one of
Clive's team would secure the slip coupling and disconnect the air
pipes. Clive explained that the APT's rear cab had spare batteries
fitted and he had placed a large red lamp, much bigger than normal,
on the back of the train so the 37s' driver could see it. The slip
coupling would be released from the rear cab, at which point Clive
would give an extra red signal on a Bardic lamp. The 37s' driver
would then shut off power, make an emergency brake application and
hope for the best! Clive also gave me a walkie-talkie, but I couldn't
hear anything on it over the roar of the 37s' engines. As an added
precaution, his team also isolated half the APT's disc brakes before
we left Heaton, so the train wouldn't stop so quickly. We arrived at
Darlington, twenty minutes late, where we stopped on the goods line
while I phoned the signalman in the South box. Yes, he knew all about
the exercise but, in his opinion, it shouldn't take place at all.
He'd already advised Newcastle Control not to bother, so we might as
well take ourselves back to Heaton. Then the phone went dead. Clive
was mystified. "That signalman must be cracked. Everything's been
arranged." So we set off on foot to the cabin to talk to the
signalman face to face. He was pleasant, but he still said no. I
asked to speak to Control. That's when I learned that, although the
Darlington box had details of the working, none of the rest along the
line to York - Northallerton, Thirsk, Pilmoor, Tollerton and Skelton -
knew anything about it. In the circumstances the Newcastle
Controller was powerless to sort out the boob. Day one aborted, back
to Heaton!

On the second night, Monday 16th July, things were much better.
Gateshead had the two locos prepared and running and all I had to do
was check for power and ensure the multiple connection was correct.
This is more difficult than it sounds. To multiple two locos the
driver brings the first to a stand and takes out his operating key.
The second loco is then buffered up, the coupling tied on, and the
jumper cable connected male to female. Then the two air pipes go on,
followed by the vacuum pipes; then, on each side, the two, thin
throttle air pipes. Finally, you have to make sure all the pipes have
their isolating cocks open. That's the driver's job. I can't remember
when two 37s were multipled at Gateshead before, although it's common
practice in South Wales where three 37s have multipled on coal
workings. In the North-East we usually worked in tandem, i.e. with a
driver in each cab. My driver on the second night was Joe Bonner. Off
the job he was an opera buff, well into divas and mezzo-sopranos. I
told him about the previous night and our concern about signals, but
he just shrugged his shoulders and said "No sweat, Harry." At Heaton
we found the APT had been reduced to the eight coaches we'd expected,
again with roughly half the brakes isolated. The same Polmadie driver
was on duty but, this time, he'd turned up wearing a kilt with his
uniform jacket and cap. He wasn't the first Scottish driver I'd seen
dressed like this, by the way! All was well at Darlington. This time
the intermediate cabins knew about us too. While one of Clive's boys
fixed the slip coupling we watched a sleeper and a Freightliner go
past. The signalman told us that as soon as the freight cleared
Skelton, 42 miles away, we could kick off. All the signals would be
at green and the other three lines, up and down, would be stopped
until we arrived at York. The walkie-talkie was still difficult to
hear, so we made the same arrangement about the Bardic red lamp as
the night before. Joe Bonner opened the controller fully and both
locos indicated full power. Although the 37s varied, most nights we
achieved full power and the required 100 mph when the driver shut off
at Northallerton. A brief note about the road itself: the first three
miles to Croft Spa are level, then it's up the bank to the summit at
Eryholme five miles from Darlington. Eryholme summit is level with
the top of York Minster so, for the remaining 40 miles to York
station, there's a very slight downhill gradient.

It was pitch black that night, but we attained the magic 100 as we
passed the water troughs at Danby, near Northallerton. I couldn't
hear Clive over the radio, but I saw him pull the rope on the slip
coupling, then show the Bardic light. Joe Bonner shut off, put the
brakes to emergency and watched as the APT's rear light disappeared.
We, of course, ran past one red light, but then single and, later,
double yellows, then back to single, followed by a red near
Beningsborough, about seven miles from York. I phoned the Skelton
signalman. "Yes," he said, "the guard's on his way back to you. When
he joins your engine, go forward and couple up to the stationary APT.
When we arrived, our secondman tied on the coupling only, so the APT
driver had the brake. Clive gave the all clear to Colin in the
leading cab and we were all set for the second run. Not to be, I'm
afraid. We didn't get to the slip coupling stage at all. The trouble
this time came from the supervisor at York signalbox. "I've had no
word for you to propel back." I asked him to read his instructions
again. "No," he said, "no propelling", and that was that. Clive,
Colin and myself were disgusted, but there was nothing we could do
about it. To cut our losses, we ran round the train and hauled the
APT back to Heaton via the main line. Joe Bonner was left to it in
the 37, while the three of us sat in the APT and wrote a very strong
letter to the Deputy Controller at Newcastle, which I handed in. The
letter reminded him that the exercise was costing a lot of money and
suggested that perhaps we should cancel it altogether. That certainly
made them sit up and think! After that, we had no more trouble for
the rest of the trials, except from the weather. Only the second
Thursday was cancelled, because of thick fog at Darlington. On the
third night, the pair of 37s proved to be the weakest. Jack Cowan
really flayed them, but the maximum speed when Clive operated the
slip was only 94 mph. It was even worse coming back, where we slipped
at Pilmoor doing barely 90. The APT stopped at Manor House, north of
Thirsk. It was daylight by then and after phoning the signalman, he
told us to pass the red light and pick up the guard. We could see the
APT standing about half a mile away. We tied on and pushed it to
Northallerton down platform, from where we ran on the up fast to
York, round the angle, and connected the slip coupling for another
run. This time, the APT driver was under strict instructions not to
touch the brakes at all after the slip had taken place. When the
train did stop of its own volition, he would only apply the brake to
hold it. For the final run of the day, we propelled with the normal
coupling and the air pipes connect- ed. The APT driver controlled the
train at a maximum of 60 mph. He passed all signals at double aspect
and brought the train gently to a halt near the buffer stops at
Eaglescliffe.

Throughout the whole exercise Clive's technicians worked with
instruments in one of the APT coaches which had had its seats
removed. Apparently, they were trying to gauge the speed of the train
without power. I never did know why! In fact we never found out for
certain what the tests were meant to prove. The railways were like
that: "Don't ask questions, just obey the instructions." I was
mightily relieved when the whole thing was over, even though the
Class 37s performed magnificently. I often used to pop into the
engine room when they were at full power (wearing ear muffs, of
course). The oil and water gauges always registered normal, as did
the four fault warnings - water, oil, fuel and traction motors -
whenever we drove from the number one end cab. The only sign of any
problem came from the driver's desk when a drop on the ammeter
indicated tow pressure charging from the engine. The drivers were a
great bunch, most of them my age or older, and I really appreciated
the Polmadie men's wry sense of humour. We all got on famously,
despite the difficulties of the job. Even Clive and his boys went
home happy. Having said that, the whole exercise was ultimately a
waste of time and money as the APT project was cancelled two years
later. Our trials may have proved little about the APT, but they did
show what you can get out of two Class 37s when they're in good nick!


Best Wishes

Rob Latham
www.apt-p.com
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1613 From: Alan Date: 11/02/2005
Subject: Re: Hornby APT-P
The pantograph on a Hornby APT does not tilt, just like the real
thing, so you don't have to do anything to prevent a replacement (or
other) from tilting.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1614 From: Kit Spackman Date: 12/02/2005
Subject: Re: APT-P on ECML
Rob,

Now that is FASCINATING stuff!

I'd never heard of that at all, and having it from 'the horses mouth' is
really the business. Thanks a bunch, exactly the sort of thing the Group
exists for.

Regards
Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1615 From: jengimac Date: 16/02/2005
Subject: Re: APT-P on ECML
I agree Kit, thanks again Rob. Interesting that the driver didn't seem to know much about what they were doing though. I didn't realise that BR was so compartmentalised in those days.

I seem to remember that these runs were made to check that the calculations for APT train resistance were accurate. I would guess that they plotted the speed curves from 100mph to 0 on straight level track. I always wondered what the conclusions were and how they compared to the TGV.

The estimates were published some years before, and were said to come from the E train and some wind tunnel experiments on models at British Aerospace. I have a battered old photocopy showing the model somewhere - wonder where it (the model) is now!

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, Kit Spackman <101453.3657@c...> wrote:
> Rob,
>
> Now that is FASCINATING stuff!
>
> I'd never heard of that at all, and having it from 'the horses mouth' is
> really the business. Thanks a bunch, exactly the sort of thing the Group
> exists for.
>
> Regards
> Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1616 From: jengimac Date: 16/02/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 692
Kit and Gerry, belated thanks for your info on POP - great stuff.

> It was a bit like a diesel version of Barry Yard there at times. I have one picture of E-Train taken from the roof of Brunel House that shows APT-E, the Co-Bo, the Baby Deltic and the Warship all in the same shot.

I would love to see that photo.

> The Warship, 832 'Onslaught', was originally obtained to act as an APT transmission test loco. The idea was to take out one of the diesels and gearboxes and replace it with an APT engine-gearbox but that never happened.

I guess the guys at Bury would be pretty glad you didn't try that one - it would have been quite a machine.



--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, Kit Spackman <101453.3657@c...> wrote:
> Gordon,
>
> >First 3 dumb but hopefully easy questions:
> >1) What did POP mean?<
>
> Because POP Train was made from two Power Car structures it was a
> Power-0-Power consist, thus POP.
>
> Paul and I reproduced this formation with the two real Power Cars at York
> when we moved E-Train (half of it...) across to the Thrall Yard. Then we
> connected PC1 to PC2 for the first time ever and I rode across to Thrall
> standing on the joint to observe the behaviour of the centre bogie steering
> beam. More than once I reflected that I'd had the same view umpteen times
> on POP Train but without the cladding! <g>
>
> 2) Why PC4, didn't PC mean power car in APTE days? POP car?
>
> Precisely <g> PC1 and 2 were the real Power Cars, PC3 and 4 were 'dynamic
> test vehicles'.
>
> 3) Pilot, Mentor etc. &co: how were the names chosen at the RTC?
>
> Gerry answered that pretty eloquently. When it came down to APD-only test
> vehicles we were pretty prosaic in our namings. I mean, we called the
> ex-Hastings line buffet car 'Hastings' and the APT-P power car test vehicle
> 'Trestrol' because it was one! <g>.
>
> I think the naming of Hastings coach is down to me actually, as I recall a
> pretty heated meeting about the naming, with all sorts of wierd and
> wonderful suggestions being bandied about. I had to be somewhere else
> afterward and said testily 'Why don't we just call it Hastings?' Alistair
> Gilchrist looked up and replied 'Well, that's about the first sensible
> suggestion we've had, Hastings it will be!' and that was that!
>
> >What do you think happened to the contents of the RTC? There must have
> been a >tremendous amount of data and lab books etc.. I believe that the
> NRM has very little relating >to the APT.<
>
> Actually they have, they just don't know that they have and they won't let
> anyone look......
>
> Paul and I have been trying for years to gain access to this part of the
> records and have been side-tracked every time. My wife, Mary, used to work
> in the Registary at the RTC and around the time we took E-Train to York she
> spent ages bundling APD stuff up together, those files which weren't needed
> for P-Train anyway, and these were all transfered to the NRM. Some stuff
> was scrapped though, and the E-Train tilt log books were on that list, but
> I decided that was NOT going to happen. This is why they are about 4 ft
> behind me as I write.....
>
> >I also heard that a lot was handed to GEC/Metro Cammel at IC225 project
> start. Hopefully it >didn't all get skipped.<
>
> It probably was. 'Big business' worldwide has no time or use for history,
> all they think about is money these days, and keeping old records cost
> money. That's why organisations like Paul and Rob's Groups exist, because
> no-one in the commercial world has any time nor feels the need to do the
> same job, sad to say. [Cynic hat very firmly in place here....]
>
> >Was there much evolution of the motion sensor design the POP and E to the
> Mk 1 P? <
>
> Very much so. The orginal POP and E train tilt sensors (they remained the
> same, POP usually leading E by 2-3 months) were very high accuracy, and
> very expensive, servo-electronic accelerometers with a psuedo-spirit level
> device as a monitor accelerometer. There were four of the former and one of
> the latter per vehicle. While crude, we found the spirit level thingie gave
> just as good a proportional signal as the expensive ones, was loads more
> reliable, and cost about 1/50th the price. You can guess what happened
> next.....
>
> Hastings coach, with it's H4X bogies and Mk 3 (E-Train numbering) Tilt
> system, had spirit level type sensors and it worked just fine. Later in
> life we fitted lateral position sensors to the bolster (LVDTs for the
> knowledgeable) and I believe this is the system that went onto P-Train to
> start with. Later they added 'leading vehicle sensors' and various other
> devices but by then I'd moved on to other things.
>
> >I wondered if was chosen because of the built in observatory, but I guess
> it was more a case >of what was available. Hellfire as they say!<
>
> I think it was just lying around at the time <g> I can't remember if the
> other 17 had been converted to a generator by then or not. Gerry may have a
> better handle on that time scale.
>
> >The plasma toch solution sounds a bit extreme Gerry, probably tricky to
> get a safety case for >that one these days. Although, I did notice a train
> blasting the railhead with some kind of high >pressure jets the other
> morning.<
>
> E-train was built with the plasma torch brackets in place, but I don't
> think we ever ran with one installed. I thought I read a piece the other
> day about this idea coming back to life for some reason though! Those track
> cleaners use super high pressure water jets to get the leaves off the
> track. I believe it works at about 6000 psi too, just as dangerous as
> plasma torches!
>
> >RTC must have been the original strategic reserve, pitty more of it wasn't
> preserved - it must >have been pretty tricky keeping them going though.<
>
> It was a bit like a diesel version of Barry Yard there at times. I have one
> picture of E-Train taken from the roof of Brunel House that shows APT-E,
> the Co-Bo, the Baby Deltic and the Warship all in the same shot. The
> Warship, 832 'Onslaught', was originally obtained to act as an APT
> transmission test loco. The idea was to take out one of the diesels and
> gearboxes and replace it with an APT engine-gearbox but that never
> happened.
>
> When the crew brought 832 to the RTC it was late one night, about 9.30 pm,
> and we were struggling to get POP Train ready for a test the next day. 832
> came down the slope from the main line and stopped outside the RTC yard
> gates, much to our amazement as a) no-one had seen a working Warship for
> years and b) we wondered what one was doing so far from the WR. The
> Inspector came over to the gate and asked us to let them in, but no-one had
> a key to the padlock! I hoofed over to the garage, where the keys were
> kept, and brought every one back and we spent 15 mins or so before we found
> the right one. The loco crew were getting pretty tee'd-off by now, as they
> were WR guys and were a LONG way from home. They came through the gates
> like a diesel F1 car, gave me the keys, shoved an official form in front of
> me, said 'Sign 'ere mate!' and headed off to the station......
>
> I was sorely tempted to try and shunt 832 along a bit, but was persuaded
> otherwise <g>
>
> >Yeh you must have a big garage Kit. Can you remember enough of the detail
> to rebuild >them?<
>
> Actualy no, it's full of a Vauxhall prototype at the moment anyway.
>
> We don't need detail, we have a 3D drawing of POP Train at Shildon, it's
> called E-Train! <g> As the structures we pretty well identical we could
> copy the E-Train Power car frames. There are enough photos about to copy
> the ballast weights etc and I could do the interior of the cabins from
> memory, I spent enough time in there for sure!
>
> >Ultimatley some POP models alongside the E Train would be a great way to
> tell the story.<
>
> Actually that's a darn good idea! Doing an 00 model of POP Train would be a
> good move, and it wouldn't be all that difficult either, apart from the
> bogies. I'm not sure I'd want to do an N gauge one, that WOULD be fiddly,
> but you never know.......... hmmmmmmmm.
>
> Regards
> Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1617 From: jengimac Date: 16/02/2005
Subject: Re: Running APT again.
> There currently isn't a plan, and it depends what your budget is to
> determine if it's 'too expensive'. <g>
>
Was the preserved P train servicable when it was retired?

I saw some pictures of the inside of 49006 and it looked to be in a sorry state. Dealing with such high voltage, high current and high speed kit would an unprecedented challenge for any preservation group.

What about the P-train trailer cars? If the bogies were refurbished mightent be possible to run one of the early test formations with an HST power car, and a 3 coach trailer rake. Perhaps it could even be driven from the APT end.

It would still take a huge expense though. There would need to be commercial sponsorship or lottery funding. Maintaning the brake and tilt systems was a challenge for a team of engineers with all the paperwork, spares and tools - so restoring them now would be a pretty tall order.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1618 From: Brian Johnson Pianos Date: 17/02/2005
Subject: Re: Re: Running APT again.

I have been off for a little bit also PC broke down grrrrr.   Just read the last bunch of emails.  I think KIT should write a book about his times on the APT project when ever I read his stories I am in awe.  It also puts a different light on the matter for anyone who fell for the propagander from the media and government at the time J

 

Buy the way I got MSTS recently it is great to see the APTS running in some fomr J

 


From: jengimac [mailto:gordonrmcleod@...]
Sent: 16 February 2005 23:18
To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
Subject: <APT Group> Re: Running APT again.

 


> There currently isn't a plan, and it depends what your budget is to
> determine if it's 'too expensive'. <g>
>
Was the preserved P train servicable when it was retired?

I saw some pictures of the inside of 49006 and it looked to be in a sorry state. Dealing with such high voltage, high current and high speed kit would an unprecedented challenge for any preservation group.

What about the P-train trailer cars? If the bogies were refurbished mightent be possible to run one of the early test formations with an HST power car, and a 3 coach trailer rake. Perhaps it could even be driven from the APT end.

It would still take a huge expense though. There would need to be commercial sponsorship or lottery funding. Maintaning the brake and tilt systems was a challenge for a team of engineers with all the paperwork, spares and tools - so restoring them now would be a pretty tall order.







Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1619 From: Kit Spackman Date: 18/02/2005
Subject: A book?
Brian,

>I think KIT should write a book about his times on the APT project when
ever I read his stories I am in awe.<

Yeah right................

The definative APT book already HAS been written though, Hugh did it, all
we need is for Ian Allen to reprint it! OK, I agree that Hugh didn't cover
the more bizarre APT episodes but I suspect that BR would not have given
him the support it did if he'd included everything, plus the book would
have been like War and Peace.

Not sure I quite have the right talents to actually do a whole book, short
stories are OK, I can 'play the video' back in my head, but putting it all
together in some coherant whole is a different matter entirely.

On which subject.....

You'll recall I mentioned a while back that I was probably going to give my
APT-E slide lecture in March some time. Well this has now been finalised
and it's happening on Monday March 21st under the auspices of Gloucester
Model Railway Club at their premises in the Elmscroft Community Centre in
Gloucester, starting at 7.30 pm. It's now been converted to a Powerpoint PC
show, as I have loads more photos in digital form to bring the story up to
date. If anyone in the Group would like to come along you'd be more than
welcome, just drop me an email beforehand so we know what the head count is
likely to be.

Regards
Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1620 From: Rich Payne Date: 18/02/2005
Subject: Re: A book?
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, Kit Spackman wrote:

> You'll recall I mentioned a while back that I was probably going to give my
> APT-E slide lecture in March some time. Well this has now been finalised
> and it's happening on Monday March 21st under the auspices of Gloucester
> Model Railway Club at their premises in the Elmscroft Community Centre in
> Gloucester, starting at 7.30 pm. It's now been converted to a Powerpoint PC
> show, as I have loads more photos in digital form to bring the story up to
> date. If anyone in the Group would like to come along you'd be more than
> welcome, just drop me an email beforehand so we know what the head count is
> likely to be.

Any chance of you putting that powerpoint on the web for others to
download? Would like to attend but can't really justify the plane ticket
from the States!

regards,
--rdp (who just finished reading Hugh's book)

--
Rich Payne
http://talisman.mv.com
rdp at talisman dot mv dot com
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1621 From: Kit Spackman Date: 19/02/2005
Subject: APT Powerpoint
Rich,

>Any chance of you putting that powerpoint on the web for others to
<download? Would like to attend but can't really justify the plane ticket
from the States!<

If you've been on Paul's E-Train site you've already seen it. <g>

The pics in the presentation are all taken either from my Collection on
there or from other APT pics on the site. If it looks polished enough after
the event I might post it on the Group site though. I can quite see your
point about the Atlantic crossing...........

Regards
Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1622 From: Rob Latham Date: 20/02/2005
Subject: Kit - Wired for sound ?
Kit

would it be possible to record your commentry on the slide show ? and
then digitise that so that we could all share in the experience. I'd
volunteer to do the recording/conversion, only not having transport
wouldn't be able to make it to Gloucester and back.

Best wishes


Rob
www.apt-p.com
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1623 From: Mark Drury Date: 21/02/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 692
> It was a bit like a diesel version of Barry Yard there at times. I
have one
> picture of E-Train taken from the roof of Brunel House that
shows APT-E,
> the Co-Bo, the Baby Deltic and the Warship all in the same
shot.
 
Given the number of (sometimes unique) locos which have survived into preservation due to passing through the RTC, I have often wondered if there was someone with an alterior (ie preservation minded) motive high up at the RTC.
 
Mark
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1624 From: Kit Spackman Date: 21/02/2005
Subject: Recording slide show
Rob,

>.....would it be possible to record your commentry on the slide show ?<

Good idea, I'll look in to it.

Would you like the frequent bursts of hysterical laughter edited out or
remain there for 'atmosphere'.................? <g>

Mark,

>Given the number of (sometimes unique) locos which have survived into
>preservation due to passing through the RTC, I have often wondered if
there was >someone with an alterior (ie preservation minded) motive high up
at the RTC.

I wondered the same thing on numerous occasions, but I think it really was
'luck of the draw'. There wasn't anyone high up in APD who was a real
'railfan', to use the American parlance, as far as I know. Even I wasn't
that much of a fan before I joined BR, but it grows on you..... <g>

Regards
Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1625 From: Alan Date: 23/02/2005
Subject: Nickname for APT-P
Most classes of loco/train are given affectionate (and sometimes not
so affectionate) nicknames.

I am not aware of a nickname for the class 370, so if one does not
exist how about creating one? All suggestions submitted can be
entered in a poll.

Who's going first?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1626 From: Robert M. Ellsworth Date: 23/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Why not "Pro" (formally standing for 'Production', but let the inferences
stand... ;-})
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1627 From: Kit Spackman Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Nickname for APT-P
Alan,

>I am not aware of a nickname for the class 370, so if one does not
>exist how about creating one? All suggestions submitted can be
>entered in a poll.<

How about 'Snake'? Look at an overhead pic of a P-Train 'snaking' through a
reverse curve and you'll see what I mean. Bends in all possible directions
<g>

Regards
Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1628 From: Alan Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
My suggestion is 'Magic Carpet', but I must say that I like Kit's
suggestion.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1629 From: Rob Latham Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Crewe open day
Hi Brian

the Crewe Works Open Weekend will be on September 10th & 11th 2005.

See

http://www.creweopendays.co.uk/

for up-to-date information.

Best wishes


Rob
www.apt-p.com

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, Brian torrens
<napierdeltic1977@y...> wrote:
> Not exactly about APT's I know but I hear there may be an open day
at Crewe next May or September - anybody know any more about it?
> As I live in N.I. I would be able to visit both the open day & APT-
P at the railway age.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with
Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1631 From: Alan Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
I've just had another idea, and it seems so obvious: 'Zorro'. After
all, APT-P does already have the mask, it has plenty of horsepower,
and it ran around the country fending off evil.

Zorro - the masked avenger.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1632 From: Brian Torrens Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Re: Crewe open day
I'll get to see APT-P then.  How much of APT-P is on display at The Railway Age?  How many vehicles can be visited internally?

Rob Latham <rob@...> wrote:


Hi Brian

the Crewe Works Open Weekend will be on September 10th & 11th 2005.

See

http://www.creweopendays.co.uk/

for up-to-date information.

Best wishes


Rob
www.apt-p.com

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, Brian torrens
wrote:
> Not exactly about APT's I know but I hear there may be an open day
at Crewe next May or September - anybody know any more about it?
> As I live in N.I. I would be able to visit both the open day & APT-
P at the railway age.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with
Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.





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Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1633 From: Brian Torrens Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Re: Nickname for APT-P
'Zorro' gets my vote!

Alan <yahoo@...> wrote:


I've just had another idea, and it seems so obvious: 'Zorro'. After
all, APT-P does already have the mask, it has plenty of horsepower,
and it ran around the country fending off evil.

Zorro - the masked avenger.





------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Help save the life of a child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's
'Thanks & Giving.'
http://us.click.yahoo.com/6iY7fA/5WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/9MtolB/TM
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Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1634 From: Andy Appleton Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Very interesting, good idea Alan. It's time to get our thinking caps
on folks! I'll create a poll next week with all of the suggestions.

Take Care,
Andy
(Group Owner)

http://AA-Rail-Pics.fotopic.net


--- Original Message ---

> I am not aware of a nickname for the class 370, so if one does not
> exist how about creating one? All suggestions submitted can be
> entered in a poll.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1635 From: Alan Date: 24/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
Man, am I on a roll or what: 'Slinky' (as in the toy). If you know
what a Slinky is then you will understand.

It kinda follows Kit's theme I know, but still worth submitting.

Keep those suggestions comming, boys and girls.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1636 From: aarontaffera Date: 25/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
I like the "The Lean Machine" as the BBC online article called it.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1637 From: Rob Latham Date: 25/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
At Crewe ETD the black cab window surround of the APT-P was known
as 'The Lone Ranger' mask.

Rob
www.apt-p.com
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1638 From: bathmatus Date: 25/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
THE APT WAS KNOWN AS THE "ALONE RANGER" AS ONLY ONE WAS EVER WORKING
AT A TIME

Bathmatus

> At Crewe ETD the black cab window surround of the APT-P was known
> as 'The Lone Ranger' mask.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1639 From: Alan Date: 25/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
I thought it was called The Mask of Zorro.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1640 From: Alan Date: 25/02/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
If the people that called it the "Alone Ranger" were more positive,
more focused, and tried a bit harder then perhaps more than one would
have been working and we would all be riding on them now.

I feel that "Alone Ranger" falls into the 'not so affectionate'
category.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1641 From: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com Date: 02/03/2005
Subject: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
Advanced-Passenger-Train group:

Which is your favourite 'nickname' for
the APT:

o Alone Ranger
o Magic Carpet
o Pro
o Slinky
o Snake
o The Lean Machine
o The Lone Ranger
o Zorro
o Other - (Please email group with your answer)


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Advanced-Passenger-Train/surveys?id=1685849

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1642 From: Alan Date: 03/03/2005
Subject: Re: Nickname for APT-P
I would just like to take this opportunity to point out that 'Slinky'
means 'Graceful and sinuous in movement or form. Sleek.'.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1643 From: Mark Drury Date: 03/03/2005
Subject: Re: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train
My nickname for the APT is "goatse xpress".
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:34 PM
Subject: <APT Group> New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train



Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
Advanced-Passenger-Train group:

Which is your favourite 'nickname' for
the APT:

  o Alone Ranger
  o Magic Carpet
  o Pro
  o Slinky
  o Snake
  o The Lean Machine
  o The Lone Ranger
  o Zorro
  o Other - (Please email group with your answer)


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Advanced-Passenger-Train/surveys?id=1685849

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!









Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1644 From: bathmatus Date: 07/03/2005
Subject: APT BIBLE
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1645 From: Andy Appleton Date: 13/03/2005
Subject: Re: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train
I'll close this poll tomorrow (Mon 14th - my birthday!) so if you
haven't already voted now's the time to have your say.

Happy Voting!
Andy

--- Original message ---

> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> Advanced-Passenger-Train group:
>
> Which is your favourite 'nickname' for
> the APT:
>
> o Alone Ranger
> o Magic Carpet
> o Pro
> o Slinky
> o Snake
> o The Lean Machine
> o The Lone Ranger
> o Zorro
> o Other - (Please email group with your answer)
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Advanced-Passenger-Train/surveys?
id=1685849
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1646 From: Ian Ellis Date: 13/03/2005
Subject: Re: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train / APT-E nickname?
Hello fellow APT enthusiasts,

I personally voted for Kit's suggestion 'snake'. I nearly voted for 'Zorro'
but seeing that Kit is the main man that made my mind up.

Can we have a poll for a nickname for the APT-E? My suggestion is = Silver
Bullet!

Ian

_________________________________________________________________
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Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1648 From: Alan Date: 13/03/2005
Subject: Re: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train / APT-E nickname?
Seems sensible.

My suggestion is: 'The Flying Badger'.

Just look at the nose and the colour scheme, and man did it fly!
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1649 From: James R Moody Date: 13/03/2005
Subject: Re: Re: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train / APT-E n
Alan wrote:

> My suggestion is: 'The Flying Badger'.
>
> Just look at the nose and the colour scheme, and man did it fly!

Wasn't that 89001 though?

James Moody
--
(¯\ | aka: Major Denis Bloodnok
\ \ /¯) | ICQ: 7000473
\ \___/ / |
|/ _)| ) | No more can they keep us in
( (|_| ) | Listen, damn it, we will win
\ / | They see it right, they see it well
|====| | But they think this saves us from our hell
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1650 From: Alan Date: 14/03/2005
Subject: Re: New poll for Advanced-Passenger-Train / APT-E nickn
DOH! Yes, it appears so. Apparently it was also called Aardvark.

Back to the drawing board!
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1651 From: Kit Spackman Date: 14/03/2005
Subject: E-Train name
Ian,

>Can we have a poll for a nickname for the APT-E? My suggestion is = Silver
Bullet!<

Take a look at Paul's email address......................... <g>

It's 'Silver Dream Machine' or similar.

But I agree that Silver Bullet would be pretty relevant. Of course I'd be
likely to call it 'Oily Bullet'............... <g>

Regards
Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 1652 From: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com Date: 14/03/2005
Subject: Poll results for Advanced-Passenger-Train
The following Advanced-Passenger-Train poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: Which is your favourite 'nickname' for
the APT:

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Alone Ranger, 2 votes, 10.53%
- Magic Carpet, 1 votes, 5.26%
- Pro, 0 votes, 0.00%
- Slinky, 0 votes, 0.00%
- Snake, 4 votes, 21.05%
- The Lean Machine, 1 votes, 5.26%
- The Lone Ranger, 3 votes, 15.79%
- Zorro, 8 votes, 42.11%
- Other - (Please email group with your answer), 0 votes, 0.00%



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